Episode 10: Jenna Lee

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About Our Guest

Jenna Lee is an American journalist, writer, producer and founder of Leep Media LLC and SmartHERNews.com. Her portfolio of work includes reporting on the biggest domestic and international stories of the last decade.

Lee left Fox News in 2017 and launched www.SmartHerNews.com in 2018. Between the website and Instagram, she’s developed a digital platform providing fact-based, non-partisan information about what’s happening in the world, quickly and concisely. 

She most recently co-anchored a daily two-hour news program for The Fox News Channel, covering breaking news and conducting live interviews with a wide range of guests including presidential candidates, lawmakers, cabinet members, business leaders, military veterans, star athletes, and unsung heroes. She is most inspired by her portfolio of work outside of the studio that combined American history and adventure. She co-anchored the first ever broadcast for the Fox Business Network, where she covered the historic financial crisis.

A graduate with honors of Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism, Jenna worked as a writer/producer for NY1 News – a 24-hour local news channel based in New York City – as well as created multimedia content for Forbes.com Video Network as an anchor/producer. She began her career as a freelance journalist reporting for district newspapers in her hometown of San Francisco.

Jenna is married to Lieutenant Commander Leif Babin, a decorated U.S. Navy SEAL who is co-author of the NYT best selling book “Extreme Ownership” and co-founder of Echelon Front. They are blessed with three wildly “spirited” children.

Learn more at SmartHerNews.com or follow Jenna on Social Media

Episode transcript (generated by AI):

Voice over (male) (00:00):
The American Hero Show featuring Travis Mills from generals to grandparents, superheroes to superintendents, heroes come in all shapes and sizes. This is the American Hero show.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (00:24):
Oh my goodness, Tim Eisenhart. Did you realize that the first time I ever was made famous was by just one person Who might that be? Her name’s Jenna Lee. She’s fantastic. One of the most absolute amazing people I’ve ever met and as great as her husband is, she is a million, trillion times better plus one, so it’s like Infinity plus one. You ever play that? I love you game with your girlfriends when you’re growing up where it’s like, I love you more and you’re like, you have to say it back. Well, I just said I love you, everything you say plus one, so I always won the game. Well, she’s that amazing. Everything that you can say. Plus one, Tim, she’s shaking your head right now. Welcome to the American Heroes Show. Jenna Lee, you champion. How are you doing today?

Jenna Lee (01:10):
That was quite an introduction. That’s a lot for me to live up to Travis. However, that is the tone of the conversation in my household as well. That’s what I tell my husband

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (01:19):
As it should be. It should be because he knows it. We all know it, and my wife knows how awesome I am because she tells me, oh wait, nope. I get locked in the closet when I get in trouble, but with my arm’s, legs taken away. But more importantly, Jenna, how are things? What’s going on? I don’t want to go, Kurt, just how are you today?

Jenna Lee (01:37):
I’m doing pretty good today. We’re talking on a Friday. Things always feel better on a Friday. Fridays are pizza night. You know what I mean? Pizza night on a Friday. Did everyone have pizza night on a Friday? Did you have pizza night? We

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (01:50):
Did. Did growing up. I did that pizza in a movie. That’s right. Had pizza and then you went and rented a movie. You rented a movie, you went to V, the VCR store and you rented a VCR and you watched a movie and then I would also, eventually we did DVDs. It got real crazy and I’m not sure people still do that. There’s a red box is still a thing in the grocery store. It’s because you live in Northern Maine. They haven’t caught up to the rest of society. They’re like 20 years behind everybody. I’m not saying I rent them, Tim, I’m staying. They’re they’re still doing ACRs and V Hs. Anyway, Lord, big night for you tonight with the P, everybody exciting, but can you just give me a little backstory? Where are you from, what your childhood was like? Just let us know about you. This is about you today. You’re not going to interview me. I’m interviewing

Jenna Lee (02:30):
You. This is so uncomfortable for me by the way, because for the last several years, the only way that we’ve ever done interviews is me interviewing you. I know this is going to be hard. No, it’s not. It’s going to be hard. It’s going to be hard. It’s

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (02:41):
Not. We’re going to talk about

Jenna Lee (02:41):
How awesome. So I grew up in San Francisco, California, right in the city. She made

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (02:45):
It out, Tim. She made it up. Well, why were you in California and San Francisco by chance? Is there any reason?

Jenna Lee (02:52):
It actually comes to a little bit about how I actually became a journalist. My grandfather worked for the Associated Press and he was a war correspondent during World War ii and he worked overseas and eventually, I don’t know exactly all the different pieces to the puzzle, but he was working in Columbus, Ohio when my father was born and when my father was just an infant, they ended up moving to San Francisco because my grandfather was asked to be part of the San Francisco Bureau for the Associated Press, and that’s how they wound up in San Francisco. And then my mother is first generation Italian-American. Her father, my grandfather immigrated to San Francisco when he was just a little guy. He came through Ellis Island with my great grandmother and they ended up settling in San Francisco. That’s

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (03:39):
Quite the trek, by the way, from Ellis Island to San Francisco for sure. As a little guy. But now, so journalism’s in your blood?

Jenna Lee (03:45):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely in my blood and it’s really, it’s actually a shame how this worked out, how life works out sometimes.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (03:54):
Tell me about it.

Jenna Lee (03:56):
Yeah, I’m like kind of a theme, right? It’s just that my grandfather actually passed away before I was a teenager, so I didn’t really get any chance to talk to him about journalism. He was also kind of a gruff character. You have to imagine a guy that got up every day put on a full suit with suspenders fedora hat to sit in his living room and read the newspapers. And so when we would go over to his house, he’d be sitting there reading the newspapers with this big magnifying glass because he actually lost his sight, which is part of the reason he had to retire. He wasn’t like a cuddly granddad, he was serious. He’s reading National Geographic and you’re kind of bothering him. He always had Rocky Road ice cream, so that was a plus. So yes, I like to think that journalism is in my blood for sure, and it’s sad that we never got to exchange stories because he actually did some pretty amazing things. He saw the first nuclear bomb test. He was on a ship watching that take place. He was on a ship in Italy during World War II that was getting bombed. I mean, he did some pretty cool stuff and survived some pretty unique situations. So wow, I’m still learning about him as an adult. Yeah.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (05:08):
Now is that what got you into being a journalist or you just have a passion for it?

Jenna Lee (05:11):
I always loved to write. I wanted to be a writer and when I was little at the time, it’s different now, but the news anchors in San Francisco were really popular and everyone knew them. They had been around for a long time and I always liked, I did watch the news with my parents and I always thought broadcast news was interesting and a little bit scary, but ultimately what I wanted to do is write. And then that kind of led me to journalism more in my early twenties when I volunteered to work for a district newspaper in San Francisco and just work for free and try it out. And that’s really how I got into it by volunteering to work for free, which is basically what you have to do as a journalist in general. Yeah.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (05:53):
Well, okay, so how’d you make the trek over to New York City then? I mean you were in New York City for a while.

Jenna Lee (05:58):
Yeah, so I didn’t ever think that I would be able to make a career as a journalist because it’s hard. It’s hard. And I had been writing for this district newspaper once a month. They come out with a publication and it’s kind of ironic. So the supervisor in the district that I was covering is a name that you actually know. His name is Gavin Newsom. And so I had done all of these interviews with Gavin Newsom and a bunch of different topics and I pulled together a bunch of clips, but I was working at Levi Strauss in a kind of an executive training program, and it ended up getting laid off in this massive layoff where hundreds of people got laid off in the same day and I thought, you know what? It’s now or never, I’m just going to apply to graduate school for journalism because that’s one path to pursuing it. And I applied to San Francisco State and I applied to Columbia University in New York City and I got into Columbia, and so I decided to go,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (06:54):
Wow. Now how did you like the big city when you got there?

Jenna Lee (06:56):
I loved it. Yeah, I love New York. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, I grew up in a city, San Francisco is not New York, but I grew up in a urban environment, so going to New York was great because it was just an urban environment times a hundred

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (07:11):
And flat.

Jenna Lee (07:12):
And that is so true, Tim, because at San Francisco to walk anywhere you’re hiking in New York. I was like, this is easy. This is so great. Walk from one end to the other, you’re barely moving.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (07:23):
We went to San Francisco, there’s a company chubby out there, and they brought us out to do some photo shoots and they took us to all these really cool restaurants. There’s one restaurant I went to Chinese Cantonese Place, and you don’t order. She just comes out with what she knows you’re going to want the mama on. Wow, that’s really intuitive. That’s what she said, you don’t order. I tell you what you want. And she nailed it. It was so good. It’s like soup Nazi stuff from Seinfeld. Yeah, I mean, I’m not saying New York’s not great. I love visiting in New York. I don’t know if I could live in New York. I go to big cities and I think how do people do it? I mean now, I mean you’re roping and riding on the range. You have what? You guys got cattle and ranches and stuff like that, right?

Jenna Lee (08:04):
Oh my gosh. No, it’s true. What you’re talking about is the move to Texas is actually really hard for me. And honestly, just this year, my husband and I had a big breakthrough because he was out hunting. It was like the first weekend of dear season, and he came back to the house all relaxed. I was alone all weekend with these three wild animals that are my children,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (08:24):
Wonderful children by the way.

Jenna Lee (08:26):
And we were walking and I was like, listen, here’s the bottom line. I was like, you relax out in nature, looking at deer, shooting deer, I’m never going to do that. I am the most relaxed in the middle of traffic, the more congestion and noise and chaos, that’s when I actually feel the most relaxed. And so I said I got to get back to the city every once in a while, and that’s what I actually did for the very first time. It had been more than two years that I visited New York because of the pandemic and having a baby and all of that. So it was great to be back.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (08:59):
Yeah. Now what’d you do in New York? Did you go to your favorite spots? What’d you do?

Jenna Lee (09:04):
You know what? I just walked around. I was just so glad to be there and sort of remember one of the things I was trying to do for Smarter News and really for myself is I walked every place that I had a major job in journalism in the city and took a photo and a little video there that I’m still trying to piece together for a little feature because the whole experience in New York was being young and trying to make it and wondering if I’d ever make it as a professional journalist and then eventually doing it and surprising myself. Yeah,

Voice over (male) (09:37):
The conversation continues in moments. Do you know someone who’s motivated, helped, or inspired you over the years? Nominate a hero to be featured on a future [email protected]. While there, learn more about the American Hero Show, brought to you by foundation’s investment advisors in benefit of the Travis Mills Foundation. The

Voice over (female) (09:59):
American Hero Show is brought to you by foundation’s, investment advisors, foundations helps pre-retirees and retirees manage risks in the new normal economy As a fiduciary, foundations does not charge commissions and works with independent advisors nationwide. To request your complimentary customized financial plan, go to american hero show.com.

Voice over (male) (10:21):
Now back to the American Hero Show with Travis Mills and Jenna Lee,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (10:27):
What the listeners might know, probably do and things like that. You were on Fox News and that’s where we met you. Let me do an interview with you. You called me and talked to me. I think it was my first interview ever about my injuries and things like that. And you gave me the chance to say like, yeah, I’m doing all right. You still got my money maker, and I met my smile. In case people are wondering what that meant, because sometimes certainly not your hairline. Yeah, it’s Tim with the zingers. But I think the reason that I consider you an hero when we were putting together a set list and who we’re going to interview on the first season, it’s not because you had me on to talk about my story. I mean, you had people on and talked about inspiring stories everywhere, and I think that you just wanted to get their stories out, and it was not like a gotcha moment.

(11:10):
You didn’t like those. You just wanted to have the ability to tell these stories and let people get moved or feel a certain way. And on top of that, as you transitioned and you move to Texas and you started your own media company, that takes some real guts. And what made you decide, you know what? I want to go out and I’m going to start my own thing and it’s going, I mean, fantastic. By the way. I tune in when I can, when it goes live on my phone, I catch ’em when I don’t get to see, when I don’t see ’em go live on my phone. But what made you decide, no, I’m going to go out now that I’ve made it. I’ve done what I wanted to do. I set out for New York and I’m going to just find my own path somewhere else.

Jenna Lee (11:47):
I mean, it was a really hard decision and it’s always been something that I wrestled with because there’s so few jobs in journalism, like the job I had at Fox News, which was I was able to appear on a show two hours a day, five days a week, do interviews with newsmakers with people like you. I loved my job

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (12:07):
Lead anchor, by the way, lead anchor, not just a peer. I appeared no lead anchor.

Jenna Lee (12:12):
Well, listen, that’s true. Well, I had a show that I co-anchor with somebody else. Yes, but

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (12:18):
No one watches for John. Nobody watches for John.

Jenna Lee (12:22):
So I mean, it’s really hard. It’s even hard for me to talk about. You could find, I’m kind of searching for the words, but there was a lot of different dynamics to that. But I would say one of the reasons I decided to leave is that I actually reporting the news. I like doing stories, being able to do interviews that we did together, Travis, and the ability to do that, the opportunity to do that was shrinking and it was very, very clear that the channel was not investing in more news gathering. They were investing in more panel shows, more opinion, and that, listen, every company has to make their own decision about how they’re going to invest, but if you really watch how people are spending their money, it tells you a lot about what a priority was for the company. And I just knew that’s not what I do. I’m not a commentator. I never appeared. I appeared once on Bill O’Reilly when he was doing these little profiles for Fox News people. That was the path to get a larger job at Fox. I didn’t care because I had nothing to add. I am a journalist, I like the news.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (13:28):
You have something to add, but okay, time out. Time out because

Jenna Lee (13:31):
You do. But so here’s the thing. No, I’m saying I have nothing to add to those. What am I going to do? Go on Sean Hannity and do what? Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, all these guys, they’ve developed shows around what they’re prioritizing, which is having guests on that have a particular opinion. I mean, if they wanted to talk about journalism, I have strong opinions on that, but I’m not just going to go on a show and kind of shoot off my mouth just for the sake of trying to get ahead.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (13:57):
But I think the bravest thing that I’ve ever heard anybody say, right? Bravest thing I’ve ever heard anybody say was from you actually. And you said, yes, I could sit here, make a very good salary for the next 20 years and do this two hours a day and be in the primetime slot. Everybody watches, but my heart’s not in it. I want something I’m passionate about. And I was like, geez, that’s a lot to walk away from just to try to go on your own, but you did and you’re crushing it. So I want to highlight that. It’s not that that’s sweet. There’s no fallout at Fox. There was nothing that was going wrong in your career. You were just at the point where you’re like, I could sit here and do this and make whatever the sky’s the limit, but I’m going to go try something different and I’m going to do it on my own and my merit and my determination, and I mean, that’s the foundation. Kelsey and I were fortunate to start. We didn’t know what we were doing. We just figured let’s just try it. Let’s just work hard and try it. And just like we’re talking about Leif, kind of same thing. He said, you were sitting drinking margaritas and you told him, what do you like to do? So go do it. He is like, well, I guess I’ll try this.

Jenna Lee (15:01):
Margaritas have gotten us into a lot of trouble because we had margaritas on our first date and now we have three kids and we had margaritas. Now Leif has a growing business, so I did have margaritas when I decided to leave. Maybe I should have because maybe it would’ve made the path easier. It certainly has along the way during some of the rougher weeks. But you know what? You know why your foundation’s successful is not only because you and Kelsey are amazing, but it’s because you’re filling a need. And that’s the second part to the Fox News puzzle, which is I was seeing one thing from the network, but the people that I actually got up every morning to serve, which is our audience, they weren’t telling me they wanted more opinion. They just wanted the news. Our loyal audience, even at Fox, there’s a lot of stereotypes of them, but at Fox, there was a lot of independent thinking people that were a part of our audience, and many of them were saying, Hey, we don’t want more screaming panels or debate.

(15:51):
We don’t need more opinion. We actually just want the news. Why can’t we just find the news? That’s the number one question, Travis. I was asked my entire time as a news anchor. If someone I ran into someone on the street or having any sort of casual conversation, people would talk a little bit and they’d say, you know what? I’m just curious. Where do you go to get the news? Which was a crazy question as a news anchor. And so I just felt like there has to be a way that people can easily access the news. It doesn’t need to stress them out. It needs to be convenient, it needs to be decluttered, and it just needs to be accessible. That’s we are in a customer service industry. The press, we’re not an elite class that people are trying to attain and keep up with.

(16:37):
We are here to serve you wherever you are. That’s the way journalism is supposed to work as part of a free press in America. And it’s gotten so far away from that. And I just knew I couldn’t stay. I just knew it. I knew it. I couldn’t do it anymore. And it was a really tough decision, and it’s one that I don’t regret ever leaving, but on the hard days where you’re struggling and you’re wondering, what did I do after all of this work and time and energy, and here I am struggling, still trying to figure it out, and I got three kids and a husband that’s traveling all the time, and I’m in Texas with the cows, like you mentioned, those are hard days, are hard days. And even though we have a growing audience at Smarter News who I love very much and are all over the political spectrum and are enjoying the news again, many of them for the very first time, it’s still hard. Sometimes it is still hard. It’s still hard to see the path clearly.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (17:35):
Well then it’s like I know you go live and you do a lot of the Instagram live stuff as well as it’s hard. What growth pattern do you want to have? What do you think is going to work? Will people stream your own personal show? It’s all the unknowns, but that’s kind of the joy of life. As

Voice over (male) (17:50):
The conversation continues in moments,

Voice over (female) (17:52):
The American Hero Show is brought to you by foundation’s, investment advisors, benefiting the Travis Mills Foundation. You’ve worked your entire life and now is the time to plan for the unknown. Just like what happened to Travis, you never know what life might throw at you. And things can change quickly even if you have a plan. Sometimes things happen that you can’t plan for. Foundation’s, investment advisors helps pre-retirees and retirees manage risks in the new normal economy as a fiduciary. Foundations does not charge commissions and works with independent advisors nationwide. To request your complimentary customized financial plan, go to American hero show.com.

Voice over (male) (18:32):
Now back to the American Hero Show with Travis Mills and Jenna Lee,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (18:38):
What are some of the best stories that you’ve been able to cover? Things that make you sit there and go, yep, I made the right decision. And I am not fishing for me by any means. I mean, take me out of the equation. People already know my

Jenna Lee (18:48):
Story. I’m like, that’s a lot to assume, Travis. Actually, no, I’m just kidding.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (18:52):
Not that you’re going to put me in the equation

(18:54):
Seriously, for sure. You’re right. That’s just saying though. You

Jenna Lee (18:56):
Mean as part of smart news or across my career as a journalist,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (19:00):
The whole spectrum. Let’s go. This whole spectrum,

Jenna Lee (19:02):
The stories that I’ve loved the most are the ones that allow me to experience something with the people that I’m interviewing. And a lot of those stories I really had to fight for. I also think to fight to participate in, because as a news anchor, you have a chair, you got to sit in every day, and that’s great, but you also want to get outside the studio. But I met some incredible people just outside the studio. One of them was this story that I did on the largest free flying American flag. It hangs from the George Washington Bridge, which is the busiest, if not the busiest, one of the busiest bridges in the entire world. And they hang this amazing flag, and you might recognize this flag because it also was hanging from one of the buildings at Ground Zero for a while after the terrorist attacks there.

(19:47):
And these guys that hang the flag, they’re all rough and tough characters. They’re working on the bridge every single day. They’re from all over the world. Some of them are immigrants. The pride that they have for hanging this flag is it brought tears to their eyes. I’m sitting talking to this group of guys in their shop, and they actually took me to the top of the bridge and allowed me to walk the span. I’m all harnessed up. I’m like, well, hopefully this goes well. It was great. But they were so emotional. They were so emotional about this job. And that was such a great story because it allowed me to talk a little bit about American history in the course of the news cycle and being able to talk about American history as part of the news cycle is really important because we don’t do that enough.

(20:32):
And if you don’t have historical context for anything that we’re experiencing, then it’s easy to feel lost. So being able to sprinkle that in, so even obviously just recently over the last couple of years, I was able to sit down with a historian at Washington’s Crossing where Washington and his men cross the river to really a major turn in the American Revolution. And we just have amazing access to historians around the United States that work for the Park Services, for example. And those have been the most enjoyable interviews really for me. I mean, obviously the pandemic has been all that we’ve been focusing on and a lot of politics, but learning more about American history, I can’t emphasize enough how important that is for how we’re placing these new stories in the right context in our life.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (21:21):
Oh, absolutely. I like watching pieces like that, things about our history, about how it was made. Have you ever seen what Built America, those ones on History Channel when they talk about the food that built America and all that stuff. I mean, that stuff’s impressive. Always talking about food. I, Tim,

(21:39):
You’re always talking about food and your weight. It’s

(21:42):
Brutal. They, they’ve

(21:43):
Moved away from your,

(21:45):
They do the, yeah, whatever, Tim. All right, Tim, jump in here. I see he has a whole note bat that he wrote things down. How does this

Jenna Lee (21:52):
Relationship work between you two? Because I know what it’s like to work with a partner, so tell me about this dynamic.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (22:00):
I pick on him and I try to keep him on track, and then he just talks over me all the time. That’s the relationship.

(22:06):
Well, I’m the star of the show, and people when they meet me and Tim, like, Tim better,

(22:10):
Tim help. That can’t help my charm. Actually, one of my, because you’re already answering some of the questions with Smarter News, which I think it was interesting. I just want to know, it’s a real simple question, but smart, her news a do you get that a lot, that people mispronounce it because it’s obviously smart

(22:27):
News. I literally told you, Tim, that’s how I pronounce it. Like Travis, I got it corrected. I literally told you that. You know that

Jenna Lee (22:31):
It’s Smarter news. Wait, I think it’s smarter. Smarter News. Did you say

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (22:36):
It wrong,

(22:36):
Travis? He’s putting a pause. Smart her

Jenna Lee (22:38):
News. Oh yeah, you don’t know. Instead, the pod should not be there. Travis, you’re

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (22:43):
Correct. I told Tim that. I told

(22:45):
Him you didn’t,

(22:46):
But no. Okay, so people out there listening that are looking for inspiration, looking for the next career path, looking for what to do, what’s the best advice you can give ’em at leaving their job? Not that everybody should quit their jobs or anything like that, but what’s the best advice that you could probably give somebody about taking that step? Because it’s not easy. It’s definitely not. Yeah,

Jenna Lee (23:04):
It’s not easy. And in my situation, it’s sort of unique because we had these contract periods and so I had to make a decision. Was I resigning the contract and signing up for another two to three years or was I, I think if you are able to continue working while you’re building your next step, that’s what you should do. There’s something to a routine and a schedule, even one that’s hard for you to follow because your heart may not be in it. That gives some structure to your life. When I left, I left everything I’d ever known, which is a work schedule and had a two-year-old and a one-year-old, living in a place that I had never, ever lived before. And it was too much newness at one time. I didn’t know at that moment I’m going to steamroll into building a digital news platform.

(23:49):
But that’s what emerged as I was thinking about, well, what do people need? And Smarter News came about because I thought, what do people want from the news? They want to be smarter. They don’t want to be aggravated. And so I thought, what does a peer of mine need a fellow American woman? What does she actually need right now? Because her life has changed drastically in the last few decades, but the way we deliver news to her hasn’t. And so that’s what I thought. Small bites of high quality information throughout her day or periodically so she can access it very easily. The idea behind Smarter News though wasn’t just for women and it never has been. You could think about me as the Her Behind Smarter News if you want.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (24:26):
No, that’s what I thought. I didn’t think it was just for women. I just thought, because the genius behind there telling us all the good stuff.

Jenna Lee (24:32):
Well, and we also have Smarter News that doesn’t have the HER that we also own, which can be developed sort of as another separate channel. But the thinking behind it was, let me just start with a peer group that I know, and that kind of ties into a piece of advice. If you’re launching a business, I know this woman that I’m trying to serve. I know because her struggles are my struggles. So if I can figure out the way that the news could work for her through the way it could work for me, then I think it’ll work for men too. So getting back to your question, Travis, I think one of the pieces of advice I would say is that really understand who you’re trying to serve, if that’s part of your next big launch, which is if it is a service industry in any way, which by the way, most endeavors are really start with the audience that, and I felt like I knew this group and that’s who I started out serving.

(25:24):
And since over the last three years, that group has changed. It’s grown. There’s a lot of diversity to it. So it’s interesting. I’m at a point with a company now where I have to sort of step back and say, okay, this is how we’ve been doing things for three years. We’ve grown. It’s been great in a lot of ways. And now let me make sure I understand my audience, ask them questions. Who are they? What do they want to make sure that I always fulfill that need? And don’t just make them adapt to me, because I think that’s part of the problem with the news is that you have to sit there and watch something for an hour or that’s why podcasting is so popular on demand. So I’m constantly thinking about that too, about how to get to know my audience better so I can be better for them.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (26:08):
I mean, the world’s always evolving, changing. At the foundation, when we started, it was 12 weeks, and now we’re going up to 42 weeks out of the year now. We were just doing physical injuries. Now we’re doing post traumatic stress partnership with the Boulder Crest Foundation and making sure we have post traumatic growth program there. So you’re right, you got to keep evolving and changing, but what you’re doing is really bringing a breath of fresh air to people out there to actually have non-biased, just amazing stories and content that people can believe in. And that’s the thing, when I watch a lot of the news now, I’m sitting there and I’m like, I dunno what I believe. Is that really what’s going on? Is it not? And you got to question it. And I try to tell Tim what I learned on the news, and he’s like, Nope, no, that’s not true. And I’m like, whatever, Tim, you don’t know nothing about nothing, Tim.

(26:54):
There’s so many extremes now, and I feel like it’s just within the last four or five years there’s been, we’re pushing to the left and then we’re pushing to the right. And it’s really hard to find something like the smarter news. It’s hard to find now so far off into the opinion section. So I just go to police Travis every once in a while,

(27:11):
But now people are going to find it because you’re on here and this is getting pushed out to 10 million people because of the network that no, really, no, seriously, Mike, you promised. Mike, you promised. That’s what Alex said. You guys have a network of 10 million people. You’re, he promised Mike promises, but no, the network that this is getting pushed out to, so we’re going to have a lot of listeners, we’re going to be world famous, and you are going to be just helping me gain popularity, and that’s what it is. You are so famous. I need your help, but I’m

Jenna Lee (27:37):
Exhausted by that, by the way. It’s exhausting. I totally understand, Tim,

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (27:42):
I don’t tell you if I was as cool as you, I wouldn’t have to ride your coattails, but I’m going to do it. And I’m sorry. I’m just going to be upfront about it. At least

Jenna Lee (27:49):
We can talk. If you need any pointers, I think you’re doing pretty good, but if you need anything, you can

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (27:55):
Just, I think he needs a lot, a lot. Jenna, I think you should call him every five minutes. He needs that many points. Yeah.

(28:01):
Oh, Tim’s got jokes. I wish they were funny.

(28:03):
Oh, this is a good one. I like this one. More

(28:05):
Importantly, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk with us. Love the work that you’re doing. Obviously your family are just absolutely phenomenal people. And I was upset. I told LA earlier, but I was pretty upset when you guys did not make it to Maine. Yes. And I know you couldn’t make it, whatever, but Kelsey and I were very excited for you guys to come up here to Camp Laurel and hang out with us. Kelsey had the whole days planned. I mean, you had no free time, but then you guys didn’t make it. So next year, I’m hoping to see you, but thanks so much for taking time and being a part of this, and really, it’s always just truly an honor to talk with you.

Jenna Lee (28:37):
Well, we love you guys. Thank you, Travis. And thanks Tim too.

Travis Mills and Tim Eisenhart (28:41):
Well, there you go, Tim. Yep.

(28:43):
You were right. You were right. Once

(28:44):
Again, I got to tell you, I tell you, I told you so.

(28:47):
If I had to choose between which of the two, of the power couple between Lafe and Jenna that I’d have a hard time picking, I’d have a really hard time picking. Good job not choosing. Wonderful,

(29:01):
Wonderful. I see what you did there. Genius. The teacher I thought

(29:02):
You were going to pick. That’s the teacher I couldn’t pick because I really have a lot of respect after they’re interviewing both of them and listening to you ramble on, and then listening to them knock sense into the interview, which makes sense. I respect what both of them did, and I really respect the fact that Jenna, she had a good job. She had a really good job at Fox, and she was kind of established herself as this credible source on Fox had her own show, co-hosted with a show, and then decided that that’s not what she wanted to do anymore. She wanted to break off and go do her own thing. And Fox was going one way. She was going the other way. And I respect that if you don’t,

(29:38):
Not that she needs it, but she had her own hair and makeup team. Dang. I used them. I looked. They got these flakes, the Pepper flakes, they call ’em. Did they just leave the hair person at home? They make the today. Oh. But anyways, no, great interview. Definitely want to make sure we say thanks so much to foundations, investment advisors for helping sponsor you and me to put on this fabulous content, but also for our peoples of listening. I think the more you’re just trying to coin that phrase now, the more I say it, I’m like, boy, that sounds dumb, but I got to go with it now. You’ve got to go with it. You’ve committed. It’s committed. It’s like a surfer, right? Surfer riding in the tsunami. You’ve got to commit to that wave and just ride it out. Let it go. I’m just riding it out, buddy.

(30:22):
We all hang out as always. Hey, thanks a lot for being a part of this, Tim. Your commentary and your input is so much more knowledgeable and well thought out than mine, and I think people appreciate that. Well, I thank you. I’m just, as Jenna would say, I’m filling a need. Yes. So anyways, all of our wonderful audience out there. Thanks again. If you guys are willing, please like, subscribe, tell your friends about this, and if you don’t want to just understand that I will cry and my pillow will have all my tears, and it’d be your fault. And I hope you can’t sleep tonight because of my tears soaked pillow. Because you don’t like, subscribe and share. Where’s my violin? I just feel like I have to play violin. You’re just really guilting them out. No, I’m not. You’re guilting listening. They have the choice. I mean, I don’t think we have to guilt. I think it’s a pretty good show. Oh, I think you do a great job. That’s right. I think you do a great job too, Tim. Well, thank you. The, do you want to hug it out? Oh, you what? Peoples of listening. Have a great day. Thanks for tuning in and always take care

Voice over (male) (31:19):
For more on Travis and Tim, the heroes who join them on the show, and to nominate a hero of your own or donate to the Travis Mills Foundation, visit American hero show.com.